Debating Alex Jones on Ukraine

Still can’t believe this happened. Transcript below - lightly edited for grammar and clarity.

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Alex Jones

Drew Pavlou is on call. Drew P.A.V.L.O.U.

I've been consistent for 31 years: I'm for world peace. That's why I study geopolitics. I noticed from your comments that it's all about events on the ground and oh, you saw atrocities. That's war.

And I wonder, what are your thoughts on Palestine, Gaza, and Syria? Do you care about what's happening there? I'll get your overall views on that later. You have the floor now, so please go ahead.

Drew Pavlou

Thank you for having me on, Mr. Jones. I was surprised you wanted to, but I appreciate the opportunity. It's always good to have these discussions.

You might think of me as a liberal or try to caricature me as a globalist. Let me quickly introduce myself to your viewers.

I have been one of the loudest and most vocal opponents of the Chinese Communist Party in Australia. In 2022, there was a kidnap plot against me by the Chinese government in Australia. The Australian Federal Police literally informed me and the Australian Senate about this fact. So I am fundamentally, at my core, somebody who is anti-totalitarian and anti-communist.

My question to you is why you side with the Russians when they fight under Soviet hammer and sickle flags. In some occupied Ukrainian territories,the Russians put up new statues of Stalin and Lenin. The Ukrainians blow those statues up.

Remember, Stalin killed millions of Ukrainians in the Holodomor genocide; the Bolsheviks starved millions of Ukrainians to death. This history is fundamentally why Ukrainians do not want to be part of Russia.

For me, this is fundamentally a question of whether Ukrainians have the right to their own country, their own national identity, and to be separate from Russia.

In Putin's interview with Tucker Carlson, Tucker repeatedly raised the issue of NATO expansion, trying to direct the conversation there. If you watched that interview, as I did multiple times, Putin repeatedly steered the conversation away from NATO expansion.

Instead, he spoke of thousand-year-old historic claims to Ukraine, asserting that Ukraine has always been part of the Russian empire. He claimed the Ukrainian language and nation are fake, essentially stating Ukraine is a fake country that should be part of Russia.

This isn't merely a question of NATO expansion or conflict in some eastern provinces. Fundamentally, Putin and the Russian elite do not accept Ukraine as an independent country and never will.

Mr. Jones, I don't want war. If I had my way, there would be an immediate ceasefire along the current lines of control.

In my heart, I would love to see Ukraine reclaim the Donbas and Crimea, as these territories are legitimately Ukrainian and part of their nation.

But I went to Ukraine two months ago, and I know the people there want peace and a ceasefire. They seem willing to accept a de facto line of control on the ground now, freezing the conflict, even if Ukraine never legally recognizes these areas as Russian territory.

Mr. Jones, are you familiar with the peace proposal Ukraine presented to Russia in Istanbul? They are offering a full and unconditional ceasefire—in the sky, on land, and at sea—as a necessary precursor to peace negotiations.

They are asking for the return of Ukrainian children who were deported, kidnapped, and taken to Russia to be raised as Russians.

Any human being with a heart would agree that Ukrainian children taken from occupied territories, transferred to Russia, and disappeared into the gulag system must be returned. People don't know where these children are. Anybody with a heart should say that the return of these children must be part of any peace proposal.

Listen, Mr. Jones, I am not calling for total war against Russia. I do not want nuclear war with Russia; no one in their right mind does.

Ideally, I would love to see Russia expelled from Crimea and the Donbas, as I believe they are Ukrainian territory. But listen, right now, if a ceasefire could be achieved on the current lines of control, everyone in Ukraine would accept that deal. Even Zelensky would accept it. The Ukrainians are proposing this to the Russians, saying, "Let's stop the war now. Let's halt all air attacks."

The other day, you were upset about the bombers blown up by Ukrainian drones. You explained that you want to avoid nuclear war and escalation, which I understand. The issue is, the day before that attack, Russia launched the single largest drone strike—the largest attack against Ukrainians in the entire three-and-a-half-year war. 520 Shahed-type drones were launched against Ukraine.

Iran and China are sending Russia weapons. I founded my political purpose on opposing the Chinese Communist Party, and they are fully backing Russia. Russia today defines itself by hating the West. You've had Dugin on your show, who talks about how much he hates the West and blames it for all colonization and evil, calling Anglo-Saxons the most evil people. You've also had Solovyov, who talks about nuking London and America. These people genuinely hate America and the West.

I would love to have peace. Let's have a ceasefire on the current lines of control and stop all air attacks. The day before Ukraine hit those bombers, Russia launched 520 missiles against Ukrainians, killing dozens, including children.

This is the hypocrisy I was highlighting, Mr. Jones. How can it be fair that you reserve so much outrage for Ukrainians blowing up Russian bomber jets, but I don't see the same from you when Russians are bombing Ukrainians?

I was in Ukraine in March, in Dobropillia in the Donbas, as an independent reporter. I was filming an apartment complex hit by a Russian Iskander ballistic missile. I saw apartment after apartment charred, with shrapnel in the walls.

Despite Russian propaganda portraying Ukraine as anti-Christian, in these burned apartments, I saw Orthodox icons in every single one, torn by shrapnel and burned. Russia hit this apartment complex with a ballistic missile, waited for firefighters and ambulances to arrive, and then hit them with a cluster munitions strike.

You could see fragments from the cluster munition bomblets in the walls everywhere. I filmed this and put it on YouTube; there are no tricks. You can see the bomblets in every building surrounding the square. Dozens of people were killed. Why do you not have this outrage when the Russians do this, which they do every single day?

Alex Jones

Let me respond. You made some nice emotional appeals. Let's go through these points.

You mention Russians having Victory Day parades and being proud of Stalingrad, where millions died, implying these are Communists. What about the Ukrainian iconography supporting Nazis, when it was Nazis who invaded Ukraine? Many World War II battles occurred there; 27 million Russians and 24 million Germans died.

Consider the standing ovation for the SS officer who, on record, oversaw the killing of 3,000 Jews in one pit. He is well known as the officer there. They say he fought Russians in World War II and give him a five-minute standing ovation, knowing who fought the Nazis.

If you want to discuss Russian iconography and their pride in World War II, you need to defend this. Here is the standing ovation. ‘’In the chamber today, Ukrainian-Canadians, a Ukrainian-Canadian world veteran from the Second World War who fought for Ukrainian independence against the Russians and continues to support the troops today, even at his age of 98.’’

This goes on for five minutes, but it's on record. Write your notes because you'll be able to respond. You say they use cluster bombs. It's on record that NATO started using them. First, you call it Ukraine. Then you say Dugin and them hate the West. No, they hate the neoliberal, transhumanist West ideology that Americans hate as well and is anti-Christian. You use emotions about a bomb building. There's a picture of Jesus on the wall and a bullet hole in it. Putin just shot Jesus. That's emotion.

The key point, and we'll go to break and come back for you to respond to all this, so write it down: you said Putin doubled his attacks or increased them the week before this 18-month planned Operation Spiderweb was launched against their strategic trifecta. But we know in the month before, Ukraine doubled their attacks. Right before the attacks of the new Pearl Harbor, we have on record the German Chancellor, the EU, and NATO saying, "We're now authorizing long-range attacks." Then they happened days later. I don't think you're ignorant; you're smart. You know that.

On the eve of the peace deal and in the month building up, Ukraine massively increased attacks. Zelensky, in his Cookie Monster voice, his little dictator upset, got up and said, "We crushed him. Putin will be dead soon. We hit Moscow every night to mess up the peace deal." Then Putin responds, as he's about to escalate again, as he told Trump today. Our media doesn't cover it to deceive people. We'll be right back. Stay with us.

I want to invite Drew Pavlou back on to do a whole hour and a half Friday if he can, or sometime next week, so we can have a larger discussion. There are so many points brought up here, I'd like him to respond back to my response. He can bring up any points he wants.

Let's talk about them putting back up Stalin and Lenin statues where they got cut down by the Ukrainian government in Eastern Ukraine. Anybody that knows Ukraine history should thank Lenin. Putin is upset about that. Russia started a thousand years ago in Ukraine, in Kyiv, on record. Lenin is the one that gave it its own sovereignty, made it its own country, and then made it where 40% of Russia's industry and weapons were produced, and where much of World War II after that was fought. Russians really don't like Lenin. They see Stalin as a liberator from him and his persecution of Christians and kulaks and others. I don't know if you know all that history. You seem like a pretty smart guy.

Also, the Ukrainians, on record, the government, the NATO folks, park everything in these residential areas for that. You can respond to that if you disagree. At a larger point, Ukraine has broken every discussion or peace deal that has been brought up. I'd like you to respond to, or you can deny it if you want—it's on record—Zelensky, the Cookie Monster as I call him, bragged that they had increased aeronautical attacks with missiles and drones in the month before this to kill the peace deal.

Now Putin's about to respond massively to what just unfolded; he told Trump that today. Then, of course, there's the issue of hitting their nuclear strategic Trident system, their three-pronged approach. We have the same doctrine here. That's a real concern to me. I want to believe you, Drew, that you don't want nuclear war. I don't know if you know that most of the war games that are done show this is leading directly to that. You've got the floor for another seven minutes or so to respond to any of that.

Drew Pavlou

Thank you, Mr. Jones. I want to go point by point. Firstly, I'm not going to defend the stupid Canadian Parliament moment. This was just Trudeau being stupid, Trudeau's idiocy. If we want to talk about the Nazis, we can talk about Rusich, which is a neo-Nazi group with the Russians fighting for Russia in Ukraine. Seven million Ukrainians fought Nazi Germany. Zelensky's grandfather fought Nazi Germany.

I really take issue with your idea that Lenin created Ukraine. Ukraine is a country with hundreds of years of history. The Ukrainian language has hundreds of years of history. In the time of the Tsars, 100 years prior to Lenin, the Russian tsars issued laws to try and ban the Ukrainian language because they were saying the Ukrainian language does not exist.

Alex Jones

A thousand years ago, Slavs were all called Slavs because the Orthodox priests in Ukraine ended up founding Russia. You know about that, right?

Drew Pavlou

Of course, modern Russia has its origins sort of in Kyivan Rus', but it's a very complex situation because modern Russia was then divided from Kyivan Rus' by the fact that the Mongol hordes came in for hundreds of years.

Alex Jones

And then the Mongols liberated Ukraine.

Drew Pavlou

Could you say that again?

Alex Jones

They conquered, and then it was the Moscow tribe of the Slavs that came and liberated what is Ukraine today, later.

Drew Pavlou

My point is that Ukraine and Russia, maybe they had a somewhat shared history a thousand years ago, but they diverged for hundreds of years because of the influence of the Mongols invading Russia. Ukraine developed its own identity, its own language, its own peoplehood.

The fundamental question here is: do the Ukrainians want to be part of the Russian empire? Mr. Jones, would you want to be part of the Russian empire? We know what Stalin did to the Ukrainians in the 1930s. You were saying Ukraine should actually be happy for Stalin and Lenin because Lenin created Ukraine.

Alex Jones

I didn't say Stalin. Stalin persecuted the Ukrainians. I said Lenin.

Drew Pavlou

Exactly. But given the massive persecution of the Ukrainians, the Holodomor, the genocide of the Ukrainians by the Bolsheviks, would you accept that, of course, there is going to be a lot of strong feeling in Ukraine that they don't want to be part of the Russian empire?

Alex Jones

That's why the Ukrainians saw Hitler as a liberator in World War II.

Drew Pavlou

Seven million Ukrainians fought for the Soviet Union in World War II. So you can't say that the Ukrainians all saw Hitler as a liberator.

Alex Jones

I didn't say that. Freeland, Trudeau's vice leader, her grandfather was one of the head Nazis there.

Drew Pavlou

There was a tiny faction of Ukrainians that collaborated during World War II.

Alex Jones

Zelensky was asked two years ago about the Azov battalions being their core forces, Nazis. He said, "Yes, they live here too. Yes, they are. Big deal, Cookie Monster."

Drew Pavlou

Seven million Ukrainians fought for the Soviet Union in World War II. Zelensky's own grandfather fought for the Soviets in World War II.

Alex Jones

What about the Azov battalions and all their Nazi rituals?

Drew Pavlou

Azov Battalion was incorporated into the Ukrainian military many years back, and they purged a lot of the more extremist Nazi elements. I don't agree with any far-right stuff.

Russia has hardcore Nazi elements in its army. They've got the Rusich neo-Nazis in the army. Wagner, which was a massive force before the Prigozhin rebellion, had Utkin, one of the lieutenants in that military, with SS tattoos on his collarbones. There's this long history of neo-Nazism in the Russian military.

You said Dugin doesn't hate the West; he just hates the neoliberal New World Order. Let me read some Dugin quotes. He says the West is geographical Satan, the Antichrist. He calls Anglo-Saxons a race of rats. He calls for the destruction of the West. He once said the West should be cleared out, and Chinese, Tajiks, and Kazakhs should come in and settle the West to restore freedom to the West. He said the West is dead land. He praised Robert Surah recently, saying that black people are inherently more truthful than whites.

Alex Jones

Are you reading quotes there? It sounds like you're reading sections.

Drew Pavlou

These are literally his quotes. I did research.

Alex Jones

In his book, he's mainly against the New Atlantis, the British Empire, and Francis Bacon.

Drew Pavlou

Would you accept that in his book, the manual that was very popular in the Russian military, he says all of Ukraine except for Western Ukraine should be annexed and occupied by Russia? This is in his book. He says Ukraine should not exist, it's not a legitimate entity, and all of Ukraine should be occupied by Russia.

Alex Jones

I read the book.

Drew Pavlou

Does that not sound like a direct Russian claim on Ukraine?

Alex Jones

I see that Russian claim. You can argue it both ways; it's mainly a Catholic-Orthodox split that's been going on for a thousand years. But let's go back for a minute. I'm not debating that there have been conflicts on all sides or that Russia has done things to the Poles and others.

Do you understand everybody else's perspective? We don't want to be in a nuclear war over NATO using these divisions to try to weaken and bring down Russia. The deputy head of the EU Commission said two months ago, "We want to use this to bankrupt Russia and break Russia up."

Drew Pavlou

I'm not sure what exact quote or fact-check you have on breaking up Russia.

Alex Jones

You don't think Soros said, "We're going to break up Russia, and I'll be the czar of Russia"?

Drew Pavlou

I don't think Soros has anything to do with this.

Alex Jones

Soros and his NGOs aren't involved in Ukraine or anything?

Drew Pavlou

I think Soros is a very marginal figure, especially when you consider the billions spent by Russia in Ukraine and America.

Alex Jones

He’s a State Department front. He’s involved all over the place, trying to ban free speech. What are you making up? Is Zelensky a dictator?

Drew Pavlou

You've got a Max Blumenthal quote on screen. Are you aware Max Blumenthal is literally a full-blown, far-left communist? I'm just interested.

Alex Jones

There's a clip of the EU foreign policy chief on the commission announcing the West's goal is to divide Russia into smaller countries and use this war to bankrupt them. You said you didn't know they said that. Let's discuss it.

Drew Pavlou

I'll go and watch that later.

Alex Jones

Find the clip where it's not Max Blumenthal presenting it. I want you to respond to what she's saying.

Drew Pavlou

I think it's very disingenuous to focus on one European leader's statement when you have statement after statement from Russian leaders calling for the full extermination of Ukrainians. For example, have you seen what Medvedev has been saying?

Alex Jones

You think Brzezinski didn't want to break up Russia?

Drew Pavlou

Are you familiar with what Medvedev has been saying? He says a new idea for Ukraine has emerged from NATO: Ukraine will be able to join NATO if it just gives up the disputed territories. But he also says the entirety of Ukraine is a disputed territory. Medvedev says the entire Ukrainian identity should be crushed.

Do you know who Pavel Gubarev is? He founded the Donetsk People's Republic puppet state in the Donbass. He said, "We don't care if we have to kill 5 million Ukrainians or exterminate all of them. Anybody who sees themselves as Ukrainian, not Russian, we will kill." This is what leaders in the Russian military and aligned figures are saying.

Alex Jones

There's a lot of bad blood, and I know about those quotes. I understand the dynamic where Medvedev plays the bad cop and Putin plays the good cop.

However, Americans don't want to pay $300 billion for this war. I think Trump should leave NATO. If you and others want to be like the Abraham Lincoln Brigades in Spain fighting fascists, but now you're siding with groups that have Nazi associations, then you should go suit up with Lindsey Graham and Liz Cheney and fight them yourselves.

Drew Pavlou

The recent attack Ukraine had in Russia, where they attacked strategic bombers with drones, didn't involve American capabilities. That was all indigenous Ukrainian know-how. When I went to Ukraine, I saw their drone capabilities.

Alex Jones

So, despite the US giving them $300 billion, you're saying Ukraine doesn't need our money?

Drew Pavlou

I think there should be an international coalition. Europe should take up the big part of the financial burden; Europe should pay more than America because Europe is the continent directly threatened by Russia.

Alex Jones

So you support the conscription they're now launching all over Europe?

Drew Pavlou

I don't think I said that. Did I mention conscription?

Alex Jones

I'm asking a question; this is logical. Germany is preparing conscription. Five countries have launched it, including for women. They say it's a 30-year war and they will break up Russia. That's the official policy, the business plan of the defense and finance ministers.

There's massive conscription going on. They're feeding people into meat grinders to try to expend Russian arms production, which outpaces Europe's three to one. I'm asking you: is there conscription in Ukraine, and is Europe bringing in conscription for the war you just said they need to fund?

Drew Pavlou

I was in Ukraine two months ago. There's a prominent narrative, often promoted by figures like Tucker Carlson, claiming there are no young men left in Ukraine because everyone has been rounded up.

However, during my three to four-week visit, I traveled to about ten different cities and towns across Ukraine. Everywhere I went, I saw young men walking freely, not bothered by any street police. People do sign up for the national draft.

Did you know, for example, there's a major source of tension between the United States and Zelensky regarding this?

Alex Jones

So, your implication is that there's no conscription, even though it's massive and on record. You never answer questions.

Let's go back: Is Zelensky a dictator? Did he ban his political opposition? And is there conscription in Ukraine?

Drew Pavlou

Did Churchill ban Oswald Mosley and the British National Union of Fascists during World War II? Did that make Churchill a dictator then?

Alex Jones

No.

Drew Pavlou

Any country facing an existential invasion makes difficult choices. Britain, for instance, didn't hold elections during World War II.

Alex Jones

He banned the actual opposition, all parties.

Drew Pavlou

That's not true. One of the banned parties had a member who, at the start of the invasion, called for Russia to nuke Ukraine.

Alex Jones

Tell me, what if America were being invaded? Would that justify such actions? In my view, you're not being honest. Is there conscription in Ukraine?

Drew Pavlou

There is conscription in Ukraine, but not for 18 to 24-year-olds. In fact, a significant source of tension existed with the previous U.S. administration, which urged Zelensky to conscript 18 to 24-year-olds.

Zelensky resists sending this age group to the front line, fearing the loss of an entire generation of young men. So, if you examine the demographic makeup…

Alex Jones

Sixty-year-olds? That's really sick.

Drew Pavlou

Sorry, what do you mean?

Alex Jones

I'm talking about the average age of fighters, which I believe is around 55 now. And what about the women who are now dying?

Drew Pavlou

I was about to say that. The demographic makeup of both the Russian and Ukrainian military is well over 40.

Alex Jones

So it's a "young eugenics"—they're getting rid of the old people. That works better. Look at this video, a Ukrainian soldier with Down syndrome. Folks, how is he doing?

Drew Pavlou

I cannot verify that or determine if that video is real. As you know, fake videos are common in wartime.

But Mr. Jones, tell me: if America were being physically invaded, would you support conscription? Would you consider those who avoided it to be betraying the nation? You often say America is being invaded right now.

Alex Jones

We are being invaded by the globalist system—the same ones encircling Russia.

Drew Pavlou

Say that again?

Alex Jones

The same globalists flooding Europe with Islamicists are the ones attacking America. So, I have the same enemy as Russia.

Drew Pavlou

Let me ask you: What do you say to the verified fact that Lukashenko's Belarus, essentially a Russian puppet state, has been flying in tens of thousands of young men from Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East?

They use the Belarusian state airline to send them over the border to Poland to create migrant tensions. Russia also attempted this with Finland, pushing tens of thousands of migrants towards the border.

Alex Jones

The U.S. is bringing in Afghans to fight. What do you think of Russia's alliance with North Korea?

Drew Pavlou

That's horrible. How can you align with Russia when they're bringing in communists from North Korea to kill European Christians?

Alex Jones

The globalists here are total Satanists. You keep calling Russia communist; I don't agree with that definition. I don't like North Korea, though I approved of Trump's peace deal with them.

They are in an alliance with Russia, along with China and Iran. Americans are also recruiting people from all over the world to fight in these wars. That's how these conflicts operate.

Drew Pavlou

Are you familiar with "Dugin" stating on stage in Russia that part of their war effort is to provide opportunities to young men from the Middle East and Latin America? Russia is bringing in mercenaries from Africa, Latin America, and all over the world.

Alex Jones

Russia is the one under attack. That's the whole point. Let me ask you this:

Drew Pavlou

Russia is under attack?

Alex Jones

Did Alexander Dugan's daughter need to die? Did Darya Dugina deserve to die?

Drew Pavlou

Mr. Jones, it's very unfortunate. However, Mr. Dugan for years explicitly called for Ukrainians to be genocided and exterminated.

At a certain point, in wars, horrible things happen. It's tragic. I wish nobody were ever killed and that the war had never started.

Alex Jones

You wish that? Well, I wish she never got blown up. Now, let me ask you again.

Drew Pavlou

This is what I don't understand, Mr. Jones. Why do you focus on Darya Dugina?

Three children were murdered by Russia in Ukraine the other night, killed in their beds. Why don't you grieve for them?

Alex Jones

They specifically targeted and blew Darya Dugina her car. This is different to Russia hitting civilians. In wars, there's collateral damage. Do you really think Russia is intentionally trying to kill children?

Drew Pavlou

Yes, I do.

Alex Jones

Then explain why they don't just use overwhelming artillery, roll in, and flatten all the cities.

Drew Pavlou

But they are doing this. There are cities in eastern Ukraine that have been bulldozed to the ground. Do you think Bakhmut even exists anymore? Some of these cities are gone. They've been pulverized.

Alex Jones

Well, do you know what Viktor Bout said yesterday?

He said that if Ukraine doesn't make peace soon—and Trump has said this as well—the Russians will come in from Belarus. They're going to encircle Kyiv, give civilians about a week to leave, and then flatten it. What do you think of that?

Drew Pavlou

That sounds genocidal to me. Would you accept that? Of course not.

Alex Jones

What do you think of Israel flattening Gaza?

Drew Pavlou

Unfortunately, that war has involved so much suffering, and I wish it would end. Hamas unfortunately started that war.

Alex Jones

Dresden in World War II.

Drew Pavlou

Bombing Dresden in World War II? Unfortunately, Nazi Germany wouldn't surrender.

Alex Jones

That was early in the war. And what about the Japanese? They did try to surrender.

Drew Pavlou

Dresden was in 1945.

Alex Jones

Regarding Nagasaki, the Japanese did try to surrender. Did the Japanese deserve to have atomic bombs dropped on them?

Drew Pavlou

That's not true, Mr. Jones. Are you familiar with the fact that after two atomic bombs were dropped, including Nagasaki, a faction of hardcore Imperial Japanese forces tried to prevent the surrender broadcast.

Alex Jones

You're not going to get your nuclear war.

Drew Pavlou

I don't want a nuclear war.

Alex Jones

NATO, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Victoria Nuland, and George Soros all said they were going to use Ukraine as the detonator to start a full war with Russia. Europe is mobilizing for war.

The West needs to stop constantly trying to have wars with Russia, and we need to reform this approach.

Drew Pavlou

If this is NATO expansion, why does Russia take Ukrainian children and deport them to Russia to be raised as Russians? That's ethnic cleansing.

Alex Jones

It's a situation where they've evacuated people, and the media claims they're kidnapping kids.

What about the situation with LGBT issues here, where Christian kids are farmed out? Germany, for instance, supposedly takes Christian kids and gives them to convicted pedophiles.

Drew Pavlou

There are tens of thousands of Ukrainian kids who have been kidnapped and deported right now. And you're just saying, "what about the West?"

Alex Jones

No.

Drew Pavlou

Why can't you just say this is wrong? Why can't you state clearly that it's wrong?

Alex Jones

My guest has said untrue things. It's a war zone.

Drew Pavlou

But they have taken these kids.

Alex Jones

Ukraine is the headquarters for organ harvesting and child human sex slavery trafficking.

Drew Pavlou

The Russians are trafficking children right now, Mr. Jones. They're trafficking them to Russia.

Alex Jones

They were sending us orphans who were getting raped; now we know they were.

What about the million kidnapped kids in America, brought to the Democrats? Why don't you care about those children?

Drew Pavlou

You claim to care about children while ignoring that Russia is deporting and kidnapping tens of thousands of them.

These children have been separated from their families. Some have been deported into what amounts to a gulag.

Alex Jones

Those are just talking points. If you want to come on Friday, we can do this again. I'd like to do a Spaces session.

Drew Pavlou

Sure.

Alex Jones

We could talk for about 30 minutes and then take comments from people on Spaces.

I'm out of time. Drew Pavlou, this has been an interesting discussion. My view is that NATO is expanding, the EU wants to break up Russia, the West is the aggressor, and this whole situation is insane.